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RX 5700 (NON XT) Mining Performance (7/28/2019)
**Disclaimer** [Still testing, and Tuning but the new AMD RDNA Architecture is new and not only is AMD still optimizing drivers, the mining Developers who DO NOT get GPU's sent to them, are still working on optimizations. Please be patient with me as I continue to test and allow sufficient time for new miners to be developed.] Same stuff different day just as with the RX 590 Fatboy and RTX 2080, I will be testing the RX 5700 over time as new miners come out, to compare price to performance for mining. Below are some of my results when testing the new AMD RX 5700 (Non XT) graphics card mining performance, now I was only able to get a few working. I did some videos on its Gaming performance and the "SoftPowerPlayTables" mod from Igor's Lab at Tom's Hardware, which allowed the RX 5700 to really stretch its legs. Allowing this Non-XT model to surpass the RTX 2060 Super and even get on par with the first Gen RTX 2070. Moving forward, as new miners are release I will update my numbers and test when I can. ***UPDATE: 7/31/19 - New Phoenix Miner 4.5c still only getting 2 - 4 Mhs, XMR Stak 2.10.7, only Algo that will run is RYO ***UPDATE: 9/15/19 - Updated Power Draw numbers, as my Watt Meter died, new one in and retested Algos below ***UPDATE: 12/14/19 - Updated and added Algos as miner support was implemented. Retesting with Radeon Adrenalin 2020 driver ***UPDATE: 1/22/19 - Updated additional miners as support was implemented. Retesting with Radeon Adrenalin 2020 driver (20.1.3) RX 5700 GPU Driver Currently in Use: Mining Performance AMD DRIVER - Adrenalin Edition 19.9.1 OverdriveNTool 0.2.8 Average temps during mining Stock Setup: 65c - 72c Aggressive Fan Curve: 40% - 75% Algo (Mining Program) / OC settings (volt mV) / Power draw Claymore Miner (Updates will Follow) [ UPDATED 9/15/2019 got new Kill-A-Watt Meter ]
ETH (Claymore Miner V 15) STOCK***
1750 Core (1037 mV) / Mem 1750 (850mV)
ETH (Claymore Miner V 15) SPPT Mod***
1900 Core (1037mV) / Mem 1800 (850mV)
ETH (Claymore Miner V 15) SPPT Mod***
1750 Core (990mV) / Mem 1850(850mV)
ETH (Claymore Miner V 15) SPPT Mod***
1750 Core (990mV) / Mem 1860 (850mV)
ETH (Claymore Miner V 15) SPPT Mod*** [Best Config]
1325Core (900mV) / Mem 1860 (850mV)
Claymore Miner (Updates will Follow) [ UPDATED 9/15/2019 got new Kill-A-Watt Meter ]
ETH (Phoenix Miner) STOCK***
1750 Core (1037 mV) / Mem 1750 (850mV)
ETH (Phoenix Miner) [Best Config]
1250 Core (750 mV) / Mem 1850 (850 mV)
ProgPow | BCI - Bitcoin Interest (ethminer not working on Navi ATM)
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https://obelisk.tech Sia is releasing a 28nm, full-custom ASIC. This ASIC will be a complete package, similar to an antminer. You will receive a mining box that includes chips, power supplies, etc. Minimal setup will be required to get the miner working. The miner is in early development already. We have begun the process of chip design, hardware design, and supply chain management. We have had conversations with previous ASIC manufacturers, and we have been warned about delays, unexpected costs, and myriads of pitfalls that throw off estimations. For this reason, we have set a conservative shipping date of June 2018. If the miners are ready sooner, they will be shipped sooner. If all goes well (and it rarely does, especially for first time manufacturers), we could see the miners shipping before March 2018. Following the presale, we will be posting a development roadmap on our website that includes all the major steps of development. We will be crossing off steps in the roadmap as we complete them, which will allow the community to follow our progress, have visibility into delays, and will be able to see the places where we are ahead of or behind schedule. The estimated hashrate is 100 GH/s. We will not know the exact hashrate until later in the development process, however we have confidence that 100 GH/s is a low bar to hit. We may end up shipping miners with a much higher hashrate, and will continue updating the estimated hashrate as we get more accurate estimates for how the chips will perform. The estimated power draw is 500w, though it may be significantly less. The price of the unit is going to be $2499. Chip manufacturing is expensive, supply chains are expensive, and there are a lot of single-time costs that go into making miners. Future batches will likely have lower prices, however they will also ship later. We will be selling the miners for Bitcoin. We expect the sale volume to be very large (in the tens of millions of dollars), and we feared that the Sia cryptocurrency would not have enough liquidity to handle all of that volume, resulting in the price rising quickly as people scramble to buy Siacoin for the ASIC, and then the price falling quickly as we convert the Siacoin to USD. This is the worst of both worlds - participants buy the siacoin at a premium, and then we sell them at a discount. Bitcoin has much, much deeper liquidity, and we can sell large volume of Bitcoin quickly without moving the price too much. We will be converting the Bitcoin to USD as fast as possible. If the price fluctuates by more than 5% before we are able to convert, we will need to request more coins to cover the difference, or cancel the order. If the price fluctuates upwards by more than 5% before we convert, we will return the difference. The sale and shipment of ASICs on the Sia network is going to dramatically increase the hashrate. When considering how much revenue you may get from a unit, please take into account the fact that we are selling enough units to potentially 10x or 100x the difficulty. If another ASIC manufacturer decides to start selling Sia ASICs, the hashrate may go up by more than just the number of units we sell. Please also consider that the block reward is decreasing. Today, the block reward is about 189,000 siacoins per block. By June 2018, our ship date, the block reward is going to be closer to 135,000 siacoins per block, decreasing by 1 siacoin per block (or 4320 siacoins per month). The presale will be open for 7 days. There is no rush - people who buy on the fourth day will receive the same treatment as people who buy on the first day. The sale will not close early, and while we reserve the right to deny purchases, we have chosen not to put a cap on the number of units sold. We may pre-sell additional batches before the first batch ships. The first batch will have priority when we begin shipping, and if the later batches will be shipping shortly after, those later batches will be sold at a higher price. People who buy in on the first batch will receive both price preference and shipping date preference as a reward for taking on the most risk. Obelisk is the company that will be producing these chips. Obelisk is a fully owned subsidiary of Nebulous Inc. Nebulous is the company that employs all of the Sia core developers. Obelisk has plans for growth in the future. None of these plans are finalized as we are primarily focusing on shipping this miner, but potential future products include:
A 16nm or 14nm ASIC for Sia
A mining card costing under $1000 that you can put into a GPU slot
ASICs for other PoW cryptocurrencies
Finally, we plan to introduce decentralized mining pools into the Sia ecosystem before we ship the miners. Hosts will have the option of running their own mining pool, and then miners can detect the hosts by checking the blockchain and the peer network, forming payment channel contracts with them and participating in fully decentralized mining. This should help alleviate the pool centralization that is seen in most PoW cryptocurrencies. We are very excited about our new company, and hope that you share in our excitement. Feel free to ask any questions.
Of Wolves and Weasels - Day 187 - Guest Post: Confessions of a Bitcoiner
Hey all! GoodShibe... on Summer Vacation! Please enjoy this post by Guest Writer Justlite and tip them well ;D) Note: To tip them directly: +dogetipbot @Justlite xxx doge verify I've been part of this Dogecoin community since early January and I have to say the people here constantly amaze me. For me Dogecoin and this community is the future of cryptocurrency and I'm speaking as a long time Bitcoiner. Over a month ago I explained in a previous post why I believe Dogecoin price will rise again and correctly predicted Bitcoin to rise substantially shortly after my post against in the face of several counter arguments late last year. My thoughts have not changed on Dogecoin but I feel it's worth giving my experience on cryptocurrencies as a Bitcoiner in the early days of 2010-13 and how that compares with Dogecoin. I bought Bitcoin and Litecoin in the early days and I can tell you the Bitcoin community back then was hopeful, cheerful and very welcoming...forgive us right now we are at the fighting stage with the established status quo wants to knock Bitcoin down. In the early days we were only known for CPU/GPU mining discussions and tipping one another after each comment. In fact Bitcoin was only ever used to tip and trade but not to buy anything since we didn't have anything available for Bitcoin. We were very brave I mean wiring money to a company in Japan and getting these online things called Bitcoin which doesn't buy anything?! Back then Bitcoin fans were seen as weird and Bitcoin as a complete joke we were idealist and we still are. Many of the people that fought us then were actually the libertarian precious metals community and because gold and silver were tangible and has been money for 5000 years Bitcoin wasn't and was barely a year old. It's hard to argue with them, after all some guy that called himself Satoshi Nakamoto, the Japanese equivalent of Jack Smith, created it but left after a year and no one saw how he looks like. We could understand their concerns, a lot of early Bitcoiners like me also have gold and silver in the belief it will protect our wealth from the next financial collapse. But Bitcoin was created for this purpose too, no more will the 1% have economic power over the 99%, "1 CPU - 1 vote" said Satoshi in his white paper. We are also in the digital era and with all the success the internet is nowadays there still was no internet currency without the excessive charges of credit card companies. Bitcoin changed all that it wasn't just an internet currency it was hoping to be money on every platform in every country, person to person, in at least 10 minutes between any country in any amount for free! Fast forward to present day and we are starting to see that. Of course we have had many setbacks on the way, such as exchanges being hacked, wallets stolen. We weren't so security conscious back then and we learned the hard way. Then we grew in price and popularity and quite recently the government fought us when our dark market Silk Road was shut down by the Feds. We have had 4 price bubbles a lot of sleepless nights I've personally ploughed in tens of thousands of dollars lost a lot of Bitcoins on the way (and also lost 15000 Litecoins) and forced to read articles with declarations of "Bitcoin is dead" after each major price drop. Sound familiar? "History doesn't repeat it self but it does rhyme" Mark Twain That's all part of the growing pains of a disruptive idea. Dogecoin, by comparison, has a whole economy after just 7 months of inception! It's remarkable as I am also a big Litecoin fan and even that community isn't as productive as this. People talk about Dogecoin's PR as it being behind its popularity but I honestly believe there is no intentional PR, I mean where is the PR team? I believe it was a combination of a friendly meme encouraging positive kind people, a internet currency that's easily explainable to anyone, a very mineable coin using your PC/laptop so everyone can get involved in and great online platform such as Reddit to connect like minded users together and everything just snowballed from there. Now Dogecoin is one of the most productive coins out there with several client and core devs, hundreds of retailers, apps, doge specific websites, blogs and charity fundraisers. That's why I believe Dogecoin is undervalued right now. This doesn't mean you should put your life savings into Dogecoin or other cryptocurrencies as they are still a risk and early stage technology. Just buy with what you can afford to lose! So where is Dogecoin heading? - The analysis As long as we still use doge for goods and services and keep the positivity going then I can only see the price of doge going higher and reaching all time highs without the need for manipulation. Over what time frame? Like Bitcoin it won't be overnight and granted there's no supply limit so it will never reach tens or hundreds of dollars but we don't need it to. I honestly want Dogecoin to be a currency and I personally like having whole doges. Ideally I would hope that 1 or even 10 doge will buy 1 loaf of bread or 1 litre of milk at my local grocery store some day. Supply vs Demand As I mentioned before the supply coming to the exchanges from multipools has been immense - it is thought about 160 million doge a day is being mined and sold on exchanges just from miners. This not only exerts a lot of selling pressure but it also encourages weak hands to sell forcing the price down further it's a downward spiral which we have been seeing. Any other coin would have collapsed long ago but doge is no ordinary coin. After the next two halvings in October time it will be down to 40 million a day and low enough to allow for natural demand to outpace the supply causing the price to increase steadily which will give momentum and may then lead to a new all time high and the second bubble. Network Hashrate I'm of the belief that ASICs are a necessary evolution in cryptocurrencies by making a coin secure which will attract investment/adoption and environmentally friendly. With scrypt ASICs large and small coming online the network hashrate has more than doubled in the last 2 months from 40 GH/s to 90 GH/s and while we tend to see a jump in hashrate just before a halvening I attribute this rise to small miners also buying ASICs and a lack of more profitable altcoins. Again that's great for the stability of our coin and this will provide further confidence that Dogecoin is a good crypto to buy/adopt/invest. Deflationary Inflation Sounds confusing so let me explain unlike Bitcoin where there will only be 21 million coins mined, Dogecoin will reach 100 billion coins mined after block 600k and then see 5.25 billion coins mined each year forever which works out as 5.25% inflation in the first year and then 4.99% in the second year and so on. While this may seem a lot I have come to the conclusion that it may be a blessing for Dogecoin as it is thought that 5 billion coins per year would be lost permanently anyway so this will 5.25billion coins would replace the lost coins. The extra 5.25 billion coins per year would be enough to incentivise miners to continue mining doge (which would hopefully be at a high enough price after the 600k block reward) and securing our network. Because Bitcoin has a cap it is seen as a store of value like gold whereas Dogecoin has a infinite supply but at a predictably low yearly increase in fact from 2015 to 2020 Dogecoin will have less yearly inflation than Bitcoin. This can actually encourage people to treat Dogecoin as a true currency to buy everyday items with than as a store of value. I believe that is what Satoshi envisioned Bitcoin to be. What are the whales doing? The top 20 dogecoin addresses which account for 40% of all mined Dogecoin out there haven't sold any of their DOGEs. The whales with large wallets have not sold their DOGE over the course of the last 4 months but the smaller wallets have! Why? The whales are happy to see their DOGE go to zero if they thought it was dying or they have been there and done that and know that perhaps Dogecoin is heading up? I can tell you I have no intention of selling my DOGEs as I believe interesting times are ahead. The Bitcoin Effect Bitcoin has paved the way for a crypto to go from $0.0001 to $1000+ and brought technological development, liberty and a sense of community all in a 5 year timespan. While only $0.00023 Dogecoin has got an ecosystem, a following, funded several charity efforts and a burgeoning economy after only 7 months thanks in part to the network effect of Bitcoin and the rest down to you. All I can say to you all is well done to all of you for being such a positive and productive community. Keep using Dogecoin and check the links at the side bar such as dogedoor.net and suchlist.com so that you can spend, buy, tip and mine doge and spread the word. Now let's go to the moon! TL;DR - Bitcoin had it's ups and downs and not short of haters over the years. Dogecoin is following the same path but in a shorter time frame. After the next 2 halvings Dogecoin price should be rising and adoption will speed up again which will make it a true currency so keep buying using and tipping doge wherever you can. It's 8:09AM EST and we've found 87.24% of our initial 100 Billion DOGEs -- only 12.76% remains until our period of Hyper-inflation ends! Our Global Hashrate is up from ~76 to ~92 Gigahashes per second and our Difficulty is up from ~1196 to ~1351. I Hope you enjoyed today's Guest Post by Justlite! Note: To tip them directly: +dogetipbot @Justlite xxx doge verify GoodShibe
https://preview.redd.it/5r9soz2ltq421.jpg?width=268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a89685f735b53ec1573eefe08c8646970de8124 What is Bitcoin? Bitcoin is an experimental system of transfer and verification of property based on a network of peer to peer without any central authority. The initial application and the main innovation of the Bitcoin network is a system of digital currency decentralized unit of account is bitcoin. Bitcoin works with software and a protocol that allows participants to issue bitcoins and manage transactions in a collective and automatic way. As a free Protocol (open source), it also allows interoperability of software and services that use it. As a currency bitcoin is both a medium of payment and a store of value. Bitcoin is designed to self-regulate. The limited inflation of the Bitcoin system is distributed homogeneously by computing the network power, and will be limited to 21 million divisible units up to the eighth decimal place. The functioning of the Exchange is secured by a general organization that everyone can examine, because everything is public: the basic protocols, cryptographic algorithms, programs making them operational, the data of accounts and discussions of the developers. The possession of bitcoins is materialized by a sequence of numbers and letters that make up a virtual key allowing the expenditure of bitcoins associated with him on the registry. A person may hold several key compiled in a 'Bitcoin Wallet ', 'Keychain' web, software or hardware which allows access to the network in order to make transactions. Key to check the balance in bitcoins and public keys to receive payments. It contains also (often encrypted way) the private key associated with the public key. These private keys must remain secret, because their owner can spend bitcoins associated with them on the register. All support (keyrings) agrees to maintain the sequence of symbols constituting your keychain: paper, USB, memory stick, etc. With appropriate software, you can manage your assets on your computer or your phone. Bitcoin on an account, to either a holder of bitcoins in has given you, for example in Exchange for property, either go through an Exchange platform that converts conventional currencies in bitcoins, is earned by participating in the operations of collective control of the currency. The sources of Bitcoin codes have been released under an open source license MIT which allows to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the software, subject to insert a copyright notice into all copies. Bitcoin creator, Satoshi Nakamoto What is the Mining of bitcoin? Technical details : During mining, your computer performs cryptographic hashes (two successive SHA256) on what is called a header block. For each new hash, mining software uses a different random number that called Nuncio. According to the content of the block and the nonce value typically used to express the current target. This number is called the difficulty of mining. The difficulty of mining is calculated by comparing how much it is difficult to generate a block compared to the first created block. This means that a difficulty of 70000 is 70000 times more effort that it took to Satoshi Nakamoto to generate the first block. Where mining was much slower and poorly optimized. The difficulty changes each 2016 blocks. The network tries to assign the difficulty in such a way that global computing power takes exactly 14 days to generate 2016 blocks. That's why the difficulty increases along with the power of the network. Material : In the beginning, mining with a processor (CPU) was the only way to undermine bitcoins. (GPU) graphics cards have possibly replaced the CPU due to their nature, which allowed an increase between 50 x to 100 x in computing power by using less electricity by megahash compared to a CPU. Although any modern GPU can be used to make the mining, the brand AMD GPU architecture has proved to be far superior to nVidia to undermine bitcoins and the ATI Radeon HD 5870 card was the most economical for a time. For a more complete list of graphics cards and their performance, see Wiki Bitcoin: comparison of mining equipment In the same way that transition CPU to GPU, the world of mining has evolved into the use of the Field Programmable Gate Arrays (FPGA) as a mining platform. Although FPGAs did not offer an increase of 50 x to 100 x speed of calculation as the transition from CPU to GPU, they offered a better energy efficiency. A typical HD/s 600 graphics card consumes about 400w of power, while a typical FPGA device can offer a rate of hash of 826 MH/s to 80w of power consumption, a gain of 5 x more calculations for the same energy power. Since energy efficiency is a key factor in the profitability of mining, it was an important step for the GPU to FPGA migration for many people. The world of the mining of bitcoin is now migrating to the Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC). An ASIC is a chip designed specifically to accomplish a single task. Unlike FPGAs, an ASIC is unable to be reprogrammed for other tasks. An ASIC designed to undermine bitcoins cannot and will not do anything else than to undermine bitcoins. The stiffness of an ASIC allows us to offer an increase of 100 x computing power while reducing power consumption compared to all other technologies. For example, a classic device to offer 60 GH/s (1 hashes equals 1000 Megahash. 1GH/s = 1000 Mh/s) while consuming 60w of electricity. Compared to the GPU, it is an increase in computing power of 100 x and a reduction of power consumption by a factor of 7. Unlike the generations of technologies that have preceded the ASIC, ASIC is the "end of the line" when we talk about important technology change. The CPUs have been replaced by the GPUs, themselves replaced by FPGAs that were replaced by ASICs. There is nothing that can replace the ASICs now or in the immediate future. There will be technological refinements in ASIC products, and improvements in energy efficiency, but nothing that may match increased from 50 x to 100 x the computing power or a 7 x reduction in power consumption compared with the previous technology. Which means that the energy efficiency of an ASIC device is the only important factor of all product ASIC, since the estimated lifetime of an ASIC device is superior to the entire history of the mining of bitcoin. It is conceivable that a purchased ASIC device today is still in operation in two years if the unit still offers a profitable enough economic to keep power consumption. The profitability of mining is also determined by the value of bitcoin but in all cases, more a device has a good energy efficiency, it is profitable. Software : There are two ways to make mining: by yourself or as part of a team (a pool). If you are mining for yourself, you must install the Bitcoin software and configure it to JSON-RPC (see: run Bitcoin). The other option is to join a pool. There are multiple available pools. With a pool, the profit generated by any block generated by a member of the team is split between all members of the team. The advantage of joining a team is to increase the frequency and stability of earnings (this is called reduce the variance) but gains will be lower. In the end, you will earn the same amount with the two approaches. Undermine solo allows you to receive earnings huge but very infrequent, while miner with a pool can offer you small stable and steady gains. Once you have your software configured or that you have joined a pool, the next step is to configure the mining software. The software the most populare for ASIC/FPGA/GPU currently is CGminer or a derivative designed specifically for FPGAS and ASICs, BFGMiner. If you want a quick overview of mining without install any software, try Bitcoin Plus, a Bitcoin minor running in your browser with your CPU. It is not profitable to make serious mining, but it is a good demonstration of the principle of the mining team.
Why the high cost of protecting against a 51% attack makes proof of work unsustainable.
Let's do the math for a moment. Right now, the network consists of 2,369,000 GH/s. If we go by KNC miner and Bitfury's mining products, we can say that a cautious estimate would be that we require about 1 watt per hour for every GH/s. This is not yet the case, as people are still using older less efficient Bitcoin miners, but we can sustain the present mining difficulty at 1 watt per GH/s. The average price Americans pay is 12 cents per kilowatt-hour (which is 1000 watt per hour). Thus, we can calculate the price of the network per hour as following: 2,369,000 watt per hour / 1000 = 2369 kWh. 2369 kWh x 0.12 = 284.28 dollar per hour. We have on average 2491 transactions per hour right now, according to Bitcoin charts. Thus the price of a single Bitcoin transaction right now can be as low as 284.28 / 2491 = 0.1141 dollar. Compare this to an earlier, 2011 estimate. Back then, the average price for a transaction was $4,20 dollar. So, there has been some progress in this regards. However, in reality we are paying the miners a subsidy, in the form of the block reward, which reduces the value of our Bitcoin, and has to be included in the calculations. The current block reward is 25 bitcoin. If we assume 6 blocks are mined per hour, this means that we pay miners 150 bitcoin per hour. With one bitcoin valued at 150 dollar, this means we pay 22,500 dollar per hour in "mining subsidies" to protect against a 51% attack. 22500 + 284.28 = 22784.28 dollar per hour, paid to sustain the network. Divide this by 2491 transactions, and we pay 9.14 dollar per transaction. This is all meant to sustain the present difficulty level, and encourage investment in Bitcoin mining. The problem is that the block reward won't be sustained forever. Every transaction on the Bitcoin network has to pay a transaction fee, which is required due the price it costs us to protect the network against a 51% attack. The bigger problem we have is that a 51% attack funds itself. After all, the same reward that is paid to legitimate miners is paid to an attacker. Thus, engaging in a 51% attack would only cost the attacker money when mining itself costs him money. This is made worse that a 51% attack can pay for itself in the form of a price crash. A man who engages in a 51% attack can bet on the price of Bitcoin to collapse, for example, by selling bitcoin short. Our insurance against 51% attacks is very expensive right now, and we're not even sure whether our current difficulty is high enough. The problem is that this problem won't be solved by an increase in use of Bitcoin, because an increase in Bitcoin use increases the financial reward to be gained from a 51% attack. This is why Bitcoin is valued at a low price right now. We don't know whether the network is capable of paying for the 51% insurance required to keep the network secure. The solution to this may be found in the form of responsive mining. In the scenario of responsive mining, people only start mining blocks when there is a threat of a 51% attack. It's the equivalent of only hiring bodyguards when you think you may get shot. However, the problem is that responsive mining is still a tragedy of the commons situation. When we see indicators of an upcoming 51% attack, we all expect each other to start mining, but if there is no profit to be made in protecting the network against the 51% attack, we will have no direct incentive to insure the network. The solution to this could be argued to be proof of stake. Under proof of stake, anyone who mines would be forced to prove that he owns a significant amount of Bitcoin. Therefore, the miner would likely lose more money by attacking Bitcoin than he gains by betting on its downfall. Quoting from the Bitcoin Wiki:
In a competitive market equilibrium, the total volume of txn fees must be equal to opportunity cost of all resources used to verify txns. Under proof-of-work mining, opportunity cost can be calculated as the total sum spent on mining electricity, mining equipment depreciation, mining labor, and a market rate of return on mining capital. Electricity costs, returns on mining equipment, and equipment depreciation costs are likely to dominate here. If these costs are not substantial, then it will be exceptionally easy to monopolize the mining network. The fees necessary to prevent monopolization will be onerous, possibly in excess of the 3% fee currently charged for credit card purchases.
My fear is that with every block-halving the difficulty is going to decline, and the incentive to engage in a 51% attack will increase, which would permanently destroy Bitcoin's credibility and encourage people to step over to an alternative cryptocurrency. We may require a hard fork to implement a more sophisticated protection against a 51% attack, rather than "waste a lot of energy coming up with solutions to difficult mathematical problems".
There is a running cost of $0.15 per 1GH/s for all the contracts There's plenty of options for how you buy your hash power including card Check out the video of their mining facilty Facebook PageTwitter Page
Am I missing something? Hardware investment vs Currency investment
EDIT: I understand that BFL products are on back order, and upon ordering now I probably won't have them for 60-120 days. That is a risk I will accept, and it doesn't fundamentally change my question. It will certainly change the math behind it, though, and as I'm still quite fledgling in this, I'm interested to hear the estimates of those who have more research. Things like the estimated growth in difficulty due to hash increase (current total power + sum of all BFL preorders would be a good start), next specific decrease in BTC per block, etc. which I will research further once I'm off work. EDIT2: Found the missing parts: underestimating the increase in difficulty at the time I am likely to recieve hardware from BFL due to overestimating the timely arrival time of BFL hardware. I am thinking more that the investment (~$3-5000) I wanted to make would be better spent redistributed a few different ways (All of these would be preceeded with more research):
Maybe 1-2 Jalep's on preorder depending on how fast BFL's fulfillment continues to progress over the next couple weeks
~$1000 in BTC, for starters, sometime within the next week; as difficulty increases and BTC continues to gain acceptance as a currency, potential for good return seems to exist.
An ATI Graphics card I can use for gaming right now that I can use for BTC mining during work/sleep. I game a lot, and I opted for one strong nVidia GPU when I built my system, so I've both got room for and will make use of another card. After a quick bit of research it looks as though mixing nV + AMD cards is not a problem.
I'd heard about bitcoin before, but hadn't really done any research until a couple days ago. I've been looking to invest some spare cash (I already have a Roth and 2 other IRAs, plus a savings net). So far based on all the calculations I've done, BFL bitcoin hardware will pay for itself even at conservative estimates, like this: Using the bitcoinx profit calculator I simulated a 4-fold increase in difficulty (as ASIC systems become more widely distributed) by taking the block reward from 25 to 6.25 BTC. Further, I took the value to 75 USD/BTC, and the hash rate to 90% efficiency. The GH/s per $ is pretty equal across the BFL product line, and with these numbers the hardware breaks even at ~99 days. At present I do not pay for my own electricity. However, I've found that adding electricity costs makes relatively little difference even at wildly exaggerated consumption values. Using 1KW at @ $0.1 per KWh (approximately equal to leaving your microwave on all day, or your clothes dryer on for 6-10 hours per day) only added 10 days to break even time. What am I missing? Why are so many people suggesting that others just buy bitcoins? Is that coming from only a vocal minority trying to keep others out of the game to help their hardware investment stay profitable? No hate on that by the way--It makes sense. I'm honestly just asking. I'm interested in BTC for the sake of watching an alternate currency and tracking an investment. However, if there isn't something missing here, all those suggesting buy-in for the past months--and it's been months of people saying the same thing: "it used to be good, but you'd better just buy in now"--aren't looking at the numbers. Related tangent, inquisitive: why does the bitcoinx mining hardware comparison page show 30.2/46.2/46.1 for the BFL products' MH/s/$ value? Those numbers don't add up.
This may be a long post but I wanted to get a few things off my chest. Some of you may not like what I'm saying but if that's the case at least take the time to discuss it rather than downvoting me. I think that's what communities on Reddit lack - discussion is how we progress and sometimes it feels like all Reddit does is downvote instead of actually talking up. Firstly - Bitcoin in the media. It's no big news that Bitcoin was synonymous with Silk Road and the Deep Web for a while. You couldn't have one without the other. This lead to a lot of negative press for Bitcoin itself. I think it was handled quiet well, we showed the majority of people that Bitcoin was useable in a mainstream setting but I don't think we did enough. How often do we see the good features of Bitcoins like:
Free / automatic fraud prevention. You can be sure that your payment won't be chargeback from fraudsters. *Very easy implementation with Coinbase and other merchants. Fees are very low compared to credit card processors.
Accept payments worldwide. Anyone who can download the client can make a payment.
Can be set up usually within 10 minutes.
How often do we see these features? I recently saw a sign in my local shop saying they couldn't accept credit card payments due to high fees. Imagine if they knew about Bitcoin, as long as they have a computer or even access to one they could attract a wider audience. I think we can do a lot more to give out a clearer message about Bitcoin. I think a lot of the fear comes from the fact that people don't understand it. If we spend more time educating then we can get a more positive image out there. Secondly - Miners, their profitability and other issues.
The next thing I'd like to bring up is the mining community. When people were using CPUs and GPUs to mine we all knew that there was very little chance of profit. BTC was no where near as popular as it is now and you could end up spending thousands on building a rig with hardly any chance of making profit - but people still did it for fun. It was a interesting concept how your computing time would make the network stronger and secure and in return you would be repaid in miner fees / generating blocks. Now it's all about profit. Yes, it's understandable that if you spend $5000 on a miner you want to make profit of it but people see it as a simple money in profit out scheme. That's now how you should see it. Your making an investement. If you look at ROI in terms of Bitcoin chances are you won't break even any time soon. This was the same with GPUs and it's the same with ASIC. However if you pay for something like a USB ASIC miner you shouldn't see it that way. You're paying a small amount for xGH/s (or MH/s) for a fraction of what it would actually cost you. When I brought my USB miner I spent about $20. If I were to buy that power with a GPU it'd cost me way more and even more to keep it running in terms of power costs. Another way of looking at it is if you were an early adopter. 50BTC rewards were nothing back in the day. If I hoarded all my coins and spend that 50BTC buying hardware it's not that bad because those 50BTC cost me nothing. Yes I could have sold it and gotten way more but if it means I'm securing hardware to mine even more coins to hoard then it could be very profitable. What if the hardware I brought mines me 25 coins now, I've done a good job imho.
Companies themselves have let us down with the exception of one or two. BFL fucked up. Avalon pretty much cheated the whole community. KNC Miner and ASICMiner are the only ones I know that kept the promises as close as they could. As an investor, investing in any of the miners with my USD wouldn't be very appealing to me. It's all shambles and I would prefer to invest my USD in buying BTC and holding it rather than buying mining software. To me it sounds like all the companies are interesting in selling during the gold rush. "During the gold rush, sell shovels." Which seems to apply to most of the companies these days.
Thirdly - exchanges and how they work.
A lot of people seem to give MTGox shit because of their processing time. What you have to understand is that whenever fiat is involved there are regulations. Bitcoin is still a touchy subject in the US. This makes it dangerous to anyone in govt. who doesn't understand it. Their system works though.
MTGox, BTC-e use something called an order book. Meaning BTC will only be worth what people are willing to pay for it. The highest bid price will raise the last price. Simple as that. It's good because it means they can't artificially raise the price..but it also means trading bots with the relevant APIs can change the price by making small orders. They take a small fee in BTC / USD which imho sounds fair.
LocalBitcoins is failing. People are charging premiums way above even Gox but only paying below Bitstamp to buy the coins. It's all about being greedy. LocalBitcoins used to be cheaper for a while but now it's just being ruined by greed. Unless travel costs are included, most people use just UK Bank Transfer which costs you NOTHING. You could charge a .10p fee each way, keep it at Bitstamp prices and easily attract more customers but people choose to be greedy.
Bitcoin for devs and merchants. I think a lot of work needs to be done for Bitcoin devs. Unlike other documentation, I found Bitcoin very hard to follow when it comes to dev. I understand the basics of coding and a few languages - not a much but enough to say make a web page or a automated program in C#. Imagine if you had Bitcoin dev dedicated websites like w3schools does for languages (I know w3 schools is a very bad benchmark but whatever). If more people understood how dev works then more people would attempt to get into it. I think a lot of work needs to be done within the BTC community itself before we even think of making it mainstream. Even if the last price reaches $1000 it's useless if people don't know as much as should do.
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